26 April 2024
Topics: UN plastics conference, single use plastic, EDO funding
E&OE
Tom Connell:
We were just in that story, of course, detailing a push to try to reduce plastic use around the world and drastically change how we’re dealing with plastic waste as well. Joining me now, Shadow Environment Minister Jonathon Duniam, thanks for your time. People might think this is a bit niche, you know, do we have a clean beach, I mean this is incredibly important, not least because we’re finding out about plastics in our waterways, in our bodies, in our children’s bodies. How important do you think this is?
Senator Duniam:
Tom, good to be with you. Look, it is an incredibly important issue. It might seem niche but our waterways, both the oceans and the waterways that run through our land formations, are incredibly important and we have to look after them. And so that’s why making sure we do have policy settings and programs to support them, well funded, is critically important to ensure that we minimise the impact of plastic waste on our waterways. Water sustains life and if we don’t get it right, then of course we’re going to have these impacts that the report earlier talked about. It is something that needs addressing, which is why the Coalition Government did have their Sea to Source program funded to the tune of $100 million to actually have on ground programs to ensure that we manage and minimise plastic waste going to our waterways. That’s the important part – education and ensuring we minimise that waste going into the waterways, both ocean and land-based waterways to protect our environment and of course human health as well.
Tom Connell:
I know subsidies can be an ugly word in politics, in the Coalition party room I’m sure at times as well, but are they needed and perhaps even to ramp them up? Because what we’re hearing at this international agreement is it’s better if countries deal with plastic waste themselves, particularly first world countries that are trusted to do things with it and Australia traditionally has just shipped a lot of this stuff off. Given the low value of things such as soft plastics, is that incumbent on us to do whatever we need to, even if it’s tipping money in to stop that off shipping, if you like?
Senator Duniam:
I think all States and Territories now have established a container deposit scheme, which is one great lever to pool. We’ve got to be innovative, though. I mean, there are some great projects out there where we’re seeing plastic waste being used in new ways. There’s a number of companies around Australia that are using plastic waste along with what would otherwise be wood waste to develop things like decking and planking materials. So there are ways of doing this and we don’t have to reinvent the wheel. Overseas there are many applications for products that would once upon a time just have been waste. So, those things may, given the scale of our economy, require some assistance. I’m not opposed to that. I think if we need to intervene to assist in that way, we should look at that. But you know, given we’ve got container deposit schemes and other projects like that on foot, there’s a range of measures to be able to adopt there. We should be open to all of them.
Tom Connell:
I’m struck that, you know, one of the big schemes we had here on soft plastics, Red Cycle, fell over. I mean it seemed like basically there’s only so many park benches and so on you could make with that stuff. The other one is prevention, not making the plastic in the first place and when you see something like a banana packaged up in styrofoam on the bottom and clingfilm on top, I don’t know about you, but I just wondered, what do we need to just stop companies, supermarkets, whatever, being able to do this? They’ve got a really good, convenient wrapper already, it’s called a banana peel.
Senator Duniam:
One thing consumers seem to be most wedded to is, of course, getting their banana unbruised. And so you are going to need packaging. Now, I agree, we do have in abundance a resource that would be valuable in providing packaging and that is paper products. That is very difficult to source because more and more, we’re finding that we can’t access our forests for and regenerated plantation native forests as well to provide these paper packaging options. So we need to be able to find an alternative. No doubt, we’ve got a number of jurisdictions phasing out single use plastics and that’s not an unwise thing as long as it’s done in a coordinated way, not in an ad hoc way. But paper is that renewable, biodegradable alternative and that’s one I back and it’s one that we in Australia should be leading the charge on, not shutting down.
Tom Connell:
Not sure if banana needs wrapping at all myself, but anyway, you’re allowed to disagree. Let’s end on this Santos case. So it’s a step closer to coming to finding out who actually helped fund this legal challenge. So, a legal challenge by the Environmental Defenders Office but funded, we’re not sure by whom, exactly. Well, what are you waiting for to see here? What are you assuming plays out or what would you have an issue with, I guess, in terms of funding because it’s a free country, as they say.
Senator Duniam:
Definitely a free country, but one where transparency is central to a good functioning democracy. I mean, we’ve got taxpayers funds going to the Environmental Defenders Office, something we’ve taken issue with and would not continue on with for good reason, in my view, and I suspect many of your viewers, too. But where is the funding coming from? The hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars being used to fund the EDO in the work they do. Justice Charlesworth has ordered that the transparency be provided for, that we can actually see how the EDO is funding these operations because there is significant public interest. The operations of the EDO are not what they claim to be and on that basis, I think we should be able to see exactly where the funding is coming from. They get deductible gift recipient status, so people who make a donation get a tax deduction, and of course, they get taxpayers money as well. So on that basis, I don’t think it is wrong. Justice Charlesworth, an eminent judge at a Federal Court, has deemed it so. So let’s let transparency do its work.
Tom Connell:
Jonathon Duniam appreciate your time.