2 September 2024
Topics: EPA / Environmental laws, McPhillamys gold mine rejection
E&OE
Tom Connell:
The Prime Minister’s flagged he is prepared to water down the power of his proposed environmental watchdog in a bid to get new legislation through Parliament. The new EPA could be stripped of its decision-making role and work only as a compliance watchdog. Labor is hoping to secure the Coalition’s support to get the changes through the Senate before the election.
Adam Bandt:
If Labor does a dirty deal with the Liberals to further weaken our already weak environment and climate laws, Labor will lose any shred of environmental credibility it still thinks it has.
Tom Connell:
If there is a dirty deal the Liberals, the next man will have to be involved in some way, the shadow environment minister, Jonathon Duniam, who I’m sure is thrilled with that introduction. Thank you for your time. This potential deal, if you like, or watering down, is this a key element to you? Is this a concession that would make you more likely to support the legislation?
Senator Duniam:
Well, Tom, certainly making laws the best they possibly can be was the central aim of what we’ve been trying to do. And I would point out that there’s a long way to go before the Coalition was in a position to say they were prepared to do a deal on these flawed laws and the reason for that is we were promised we’d have new environmental laws replacing the existing ones by the end of last year. We don’t, and instead all we’re talking about here is a new bureaucracy, Labor called it a ‘tough cop on the beat’, but they’re now apparently willing to water it down to really just be nothing more than a name and logo change, it rather makes a mockery of their agenda here. But look, there were a lot of problems we highlighted and we’ll work through the issues they’ve come back to us with, but a lot of work to do in order for any deal to be done.
Tom Connell:
Where’s it at? I mean, are you in earnest conversations actually trying to get on the same page and for now as it’s sort of sound bites from across the country
Senator Duniam:
It’s probably a bit of both, Tom. I mean we have spent many hours over many months drafting amendments to these laws, provided them to government, we’ve worked with stakeholders who have expressed extreme concerns about what was proposed, so we’ve in good faith attempted to make this the best possible outcome. But as I said, there is a long way to go and you’ve got a Minister making decisions using laws well outside of what we’re discussing here, which are killing off projects anyway, so it all sort of becomes a bit of a joke…
Tom Connell:
We’ll get to that in a moment. But when you say a bit of both of you, have you met personally with Tanya Plibersek when you’re going through things or?
Senator Duniam:
I’ve met with Tanya directly. We had a good, frank conversation around where we were at and the issues we had. And of course I know the Australian Greens are very keen to do a deal as well. This is about a Government taking this responsibility seriously, not just getting a bill through the parliament to say they’ve chalked up a win in the environment portfolio. As it stands today, the bill has no friends, no one’s willing to support it, and that is on the government.
Tom Connell:
As a general rule, it’s an interesting concession this one because I know politicians love to say I’ll get it out of the hands of bureaucracy, but they generally make independent decisions. They’re not trying to win over voters, is what I’m saying. Politicians are trying to win over voters. That’s just the reality, and that can lend itself to short termism. You want a mine approved because it means jobs now and people vote for them. Longer term might be an environmental issue, but that might not be as urgent a-seeming issue. Do you understand why it can’t just be in the hands of the Minister?
Senator Duniam:
Well, I tend to think also that politicians are elected at a federal level every three years, and governments turfed out off the back of bad policy and bad decisions, as we’ve seen fairly frequently. You cannot, I don’t think, outsourced completely to someone who gets paid every fortnight, regardless of what they do and how well they do it. Someone who could well be an activist as well, with no capacity to be removed from their position, which is what the current laws outline. I think that is very dangerous. And the Environment Protection Authority that the government have proposed is all about environmental protection. It doesn’t actually weigh in economic and social considerations in the decision-making process.
Tom Connell:
Just on the gold mine that’s got a lot of attention that’s at least at this stage being rejected by the Minister. Do you maintain it’s the process that’s broken here, that the priority that the Coalition says is going to one group in this particular decision? One local indigenous group?
Senator Duniam:
Well, how could good process churn out a result where the state planning authority, the state environmental protection authority, the state minister and Labor Premier all agree that this project should get up. You’ve got the Orange Aboriginal Land Council and Wiradjuri elder Roy Ah-See all saying this process is broken because it didn’t actually place weight where it needed to. Instead, the Minister has cited with eighteen people who claim to have indigenous authority over this area and frankly, incorrectly so. It beggars’ belief that we’ve had a mine go through all state, federal environmental approvals, including ones relating to Aboriginal cultural heritage, and now we have a Minister knock it on the head on that basis alone, the process is broken.
Tom Connell:
We did have the Orange, the local group, the Wiradjuri traditional owners, Central West Aboriginal Corporation, we did have them about a year ago say they were confused by the Orange Land Council changed his position from neutral to support. So that’s not quite clear what happened there. We also had this same group oppose a go kart track. Now that was stopped at the last minute from going ahead by Sussan Ley. So doesn’t this show that these concerns do come up and Ministers do act, Coalition ones, Labor ones as well?
Senator Duniam:
So, a couple of things. The Orange Aboriginal Land Council had their concerns managed, they participated in the process, spoke to the proponents and had all of their concerns addressed, which is why they are now happy to see this mine go ahead. In terms of the go kart track, well, there was a signature I understand of 10,000 locals who were opposed to it and of course, I don’t think the go kart track had the economic outcomes that a billion-dollar gold mine with 800 jobs is going to provide, and that’s where the weight…
Tom Connell:
So it’s big enough and enough jobs, you can ride roughshod over concerns around anything to do with the land holders. If it’s big enough. Is that what you’re saying?
Senator Duniam:
Well, at the moment we have a small group of nearly unidentifiable Indigenous Australians riding roughshod over the wills and wishes of the rest of the country who need jobs and economic activity. The Act the Minister has relied on is so open-ended and has so much discretion packed into it, she hasn’t given us any clear answers around why she’s done this. I actually think this law needs to change and that’s something we’ll do if we form government at the next election. They need addressing and tightening up and can I say the decision needs to be reversed. That’s our view.
Tom Connell:
Jonathon Duniam, appreciate your time. Thank you.
Senator Duniam:
Thanks, Tom.