26 July 2024
Topics: Senate inquiry into nature positive laws, forestry, Tasmania’s GST share, Hobart stadium
EO&E
Tom Connell:
Well, a Senate inquiry is delving into proposed changes to environmental protection laws dubbed “Nature Positive” reforms. Conservation groups want strengthened legislation. Business advocates are warning against extra red tape though, particularly in resources rich WA.
Witness:
Utility companies are concerned it will be more difficult to develop new electricity transmission infrastructure, making it harder to connect new sources of renewable energy to the grid. Tourism businesses concerned it will be difficult to get new projects up. Exploration companies are concerned at their ability to get new critical minerals mines up in areas like cobalt, copper and lithium.
Tom Connell:
Concerns as well the approvals process is slowing down renewables projects from actually coming online.
Witness:
Thirty-five wind farms are currently awaiting EPBC decisions, and so that gives you a sense of the scale of the urgency. Our strong view is that we shouldn’t just be talking about Nature Positive. We should be talking about climate positive as well, that the Smart Energy Council has long advocated for a climate change trigger in the EPBC Act. So just as we’re looking at the climate change impacts of decisions, we should be looking at the climate change benefits of projects.
Tom Connell:
Joining me now, Shadow Environment Minister Jonathon Duniam, here in the studio. Good to have you here.
Senator Duniam:
G’day Tom.
Tom Connell:
I guess, starting off and just talking about a need for these laws: (Australia is) still very high on land clearing, we’re described as one of the land clearing hotspots even though we’re a developed nation. Is this something that needs to be done, ‘right, we’ll get into that, these laws and this approach is needed’? It can’t just be sort of left to go on as it has been?
Senator Duniam:
No. Look, I don’t think there are many people out there that argue the existing Federal environmental approval laws, the EPBC Act as it’s called, are fit for purpose. They’re out of date, they’ve been altered and amended so many times that they don’t work anymore. Miners, farmers, foresters, green groups, anyone, you name it, all want change. So that’s what this whole process was about. The problem is, though, the process we’ve embarked upon is not where we should be. The laws aimed at reform, to get things right from beginning to end, have now been abandoned. And all we’re debating now is the establishment of a new EPA, a new bureaucracy, to administer the same broken laws. It’s not going to change anything, and this is why everyone, from green groups to mining companies, to renewable energy advocates are all saying this is a broken process and the Government have got it wrong.
Tom Connell:
When we’re looking at that, we’ve heard a lot of concern expressed by the Coalition around large scale renewable projects. So we want everything done well, whether it’s a mining project or a renewable, but is it also fair enough to not just have renewable projects sort of mired in endless processes as well? They need a fair environment to be able to go ahead?
Senator Duniam:
Yeah, absolutely they do. And it should be a level playing field for all projects, all renewables projects, all mining projects, be they critical minerals or others, all of these things should have applied to them the same rules, the same community consultation, the same standards and get the same outcome as best we can. At the moment it doesn’t work and what the Government have proposed will not change that, will not provide more certainty, and will not speed things up. It will keep them mired in the same bogged-down process.
Tom Connell:
Where do you sit as the Shadow Minister and also a Tasmanian on the logging of old growth or clearing of old growth? Because that’s finite, and once that’s gone, it’s gone. Should we be focusing more on the plantations? There’s enough space now for lots of plantations if we want timber, that it doesn’t really make sense to clear old growth any more?
Senator Duniam:
Well, there’s a difference between old growth and native forestry, which is again different to plantation. Native forestry is the stuff that’s not planted in rows, but has been harvested before, grows in a random, native fashion and frankly is harvested, in my view, sustainably. Old growth is very different. When you’ve got trees that are hundreds of years old, many of them special species timbers like myrtle and Huon pine, and so on, they’re not for logging.
Tom Connell:
They should be locked up, not cleared.
Senator Duniam:
And broadly they are. Very rarely will you see any old growth logged, contrary to some of the assertions that are made. Native, though, is essential because timber for staircases, for window frames, for benchtops, for furniture you can’t get out of a plantation.
Tom Connell:
Doing that aspect, the native element that you think should continue to be logged that has happened before, so it’s not hundreds or thousands of years old, does it also need to be done in a sense where we say ‘we need some targets, what is the net amount of land we don’t want to be clearing’, you know? Because at the moment it just sort of piecemeal, right? ‘Oh ok, you can’t do that, but you can do that bit’. Should we say we don’t want to go below a certain percent of having forest, whatever forest it is, in Australia?
Senator Duniam:
Yeah. For example, in Tasmania, fifty-two percent of our land mass is locked up. A great portion of that is forests that will never be harvested ever again, have been harvested in the past, but are now being preserved for environmental purposes
Tom Connell:
And are you happy with that?
Senator Duniam:
Yes, and it’ll likely never be reversed. It is good to look after the environment. But we’ve got to remember the demand for product is only growing. We need more houses. We’ve got more people coming to live in Australia. If we’re not getting the timber out of sustainably managed Australian forests, they’re coming out of places like the Congo Basin where they do not care about the environment. There are threatened, endangered species that are being completely decimated.
Tom Connell:
There are in Australia, too. We’ve sort of become an extinction capital. So I know we like to cast aspersions about overseas, but it’s happening here. I mean, it’s unimaginable when I was growing up that koala populations might be under threat, now they are.
Senator Duniam:
And indeed, we need to make sure we manage any impact that comes from human activity on flora and fauna. That’s what this is all about. Getting the balance right, though, and making sure we can cater for our economic and social needs is as important as protecting the environment.
Tom Connell:
There’s a lot of timber in the Tasmanian stadium! I’m pretty proud of that segue just as I think to ask you about that. It’s happening, it looks like. And we haven’t sort of spoken about this much in the wash up of the election. I wanted to ask about this. You were upset about the GST distribution potentially being altered. Does the Coalition have a set policy on that, on how the GST contribution might be altered by the Federal Government’s contribution to the stadium?
Senator Duniam:
Well, obviously as a Tasmanian, my view is that Tasmania should get its fair share and what I’ll be advocating for is that a Coalition Government would honour that fairness and equity.
Tom Connell:
So you need to get the big dogs to approve that, basically?
Senator Duniam:
Yeah, and I think it’s the right thing. It’s the right thing for Tasmania to do and I’d be asking people like Julie Collins, who’s a Cabinet Minister.
Tom Connell:
Or Peter Dutton the Liberal leader?
Senator Duniam:
Or Peter Dutton, the Liberal Leader, to do the right thing by Tasmanians and I think it is the right thing to do and it’s something I’ll fight very hard for ahead of the election.
Tom Connell:
Now what about this? Are you going to be a fully fledged Tassie Devils fan or are you going to stay with whoever’s your existing team …
Senator Duniam:
… that’s the Bombers.
Tom Connell:
There you go. So, are you going to be Essendon first and Tassie second? Or are you willing to say we need this to be number one, Tassie?
Senator Duniam:
It’s going to be Tassie all the way.
Tom Connell:
Does that mean you’ll stop being an Essendon member? How do you do that? That seems difficult.
Senator Duniam:
Well, look, I don’t think Essendon will miss me too much, but the Devils need every bit of help.
Tom Connell:
So is that a common thing? People will go ‘I love whatever team’, Richmond, St Kilda have a lot of fans down there, but just the love of the state will overwhelm that?
Senator Duniam:
Well, you’ve got the Hawks and North Melbourne that play down there as part of the arrangements now going. But I reckon you’ll see more of that, and we did see the memberships of the Devils skyrocket in those early days. It’s a big thing and it has really united our state.
Tom Connell:
You might need a mass, maybe, cutting up of old memberships. I don’t know, I’m being controversial here. Sort of make it official. Here’s my new club. Because you can’t have two clubs. That’s what I’m getting at.
Senator Duniam:
No, it’s a small jurisdiction and I reckon most Tasmanians will hop in behind the Devils.
Tom Connell:
Alright, there you go. He’s ditching the Bombers. That’s big news out there. I’m not sure if that’ll get you in trouble Jonathon Duniam. We’ll see.