20 May 2024
Topics: Immigration, environmental offsets scheme, nuclear
E&OE
Tom Connell:
A lot of talk about immigration. This was the key debate, if you like, or fight picked by Peter Dutton in his budget in reply. Joining me now is Shadow Environment Minister Jonathon Duniam. Thank you for your time. The headline is what is grabbing a lot of attention here because net overseas migration, the number of people that come into the country versus out, is coming down very quickly to 260,000. The Opposition Leader says he wants to bring that down by another 100,000. It seems pretty ambitious, doesn’t it?
Senator Duniam:
Well, I think given the nature of the times we’re living in and the problems being encountered, particularly by Australian people, and this debate’s being had against the backdrop of housing crisis in Australia, one of the key solutions, I think it’s been made pretty clear, is to ensure that we make housing available for Australians. So, bringing down the number of overseas migrants, by bringing down that number of net overseas migrants to 140,000 is a serious measure, but one that’s necessary so that we can provide housing for Australians first. It is a big number, but it is something that needs to happen to free up housing for Australians.
Tom Connell:
Net to 160, you said 140, I think a lot of numbers bouncing around so not having a go, but just to clarify that for our viewers, do we need to know at some point how that’s going to happen because immigration matters, it matters for the economy, it matters for getting skills into the country through temporary, skilled migrants, it matters for universities. Our third biggest export is international students, effectively. So is the Coalition going to outline how this happens?
Senator Duniam:
Of course there will always be more detail provided on the way through to an election by our leader and by relevant shadow ministers, but I don’t think it is a good economic policy to rely solely on high immigration numbers as a means of generating economic activity. The Environment Minister could well bring forward laws that make it easier to do business in this country to get more projects off the ground more quickly, to provide more jobs and more economic activity. I mean, that sort of thing is what the Government should be relying on, not inflating economic activity with immigration numbers. And as others have already said today, the byproduct of high immigration numbers, people coming to this country permanently, is that houses are less affordable and less attainable for Australians and we’ve got to put Australians first here.
Tom Connell:
But that depends doesn’t on how many you’re building as well. And part of the influx of migrants – the people that build houses. So, skills in it. So when you say your detail it, are we going to know the number of students that you’re going to cap, for example. We’re going to know how many skilled migrants will be able to enter the country? Are you going to break it down so it’s not just a vibe that helps you win seats in the suburbs.
Senator Duniam:
Yeah, Australians want more than a vibe and we’ll provide them much more than a vibe. We will provide them the detail they need, absolutely, and we’ll be making sure that decisions are made in accordance with what is in Australia’s best interests, including what skilled migrants we need for our country to surge ahead. And you’re right, we are going to need skilled migrants to help in building the houses we need to build. There’s a lot that goes into this and it’s hard to detail our entire election manifesto in a budget reply speech, but the leader did his level best and I’m sure there’ll be more detail over time.
Tom Connell:
Yeah, I guess it’s hard to debate with you or, you know, throw questions at you without knowing the numbers, but we’ll know them, so that’ll be good. It’s not your portfolio, but you know, it matters to the Coalition. You’re willing to debate each topic. Let’s talk about something in your portfolio, the offsets scheme and the environmental offsets scheme. So basically, the company’s going to chop down a lot of forests, whatever it might be, they need detailed plans to build it or buy it and regenerate it somewhere else. One in four of the projects failing to secure enough credits for what they do, the damage they do versus the sort of regeneration. Is it broken? What do you make of this scheme and what future will it face under the Coalition?
Senator Duniam:
Well clearly they are alarming numbers and we don’t want to see our environment trashed. No one does. But we did have a measure in place before the last election which would have prevented, or at least ensured, that we deterred companies from doing this. That was blocked by Labor and the Greens. Now, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And Labor, while having highlighted the problem, we know what it is now, have to come up with a solution. There are some bureaucrats that have been announced by the Minister, but I mean like with our recycling issues with REDcycle and the debacle that was like with the failure to bring in the environmental laws within the two years that they’ve been in office, having promised them at the end of last year, I’m actually wondering whether we will see a solution. We know what the problem is, but it is up to the Government now to chart out what they do to fix the problem. For us, well, I think that we’ve got to work better with industry to make sure that they play by the rules.
Tom Connell:
Ok. Just finally on your nuclear power plans, so we’re going to find out details on where they’ll be in the next few weeks when it’s announced. I’m interested in this. So, once you name the sites, we’ll know what seats they’re in. How do you gauge whether an electorate’s rejected that? So, let’s say you win power at the next election but there’s a seat with a big swing that goes against the national mood that has a nuclear powered energy proposal in it, a nuclear power plant. Would you consider that electorate to have rejected it?
Senator Duniam:
Well, the process we’ll go through to ensure that the communities in which such a power station will be based will be announced. All of that detail will be announced and it’s not something I’m going to preannounce today. But a key part of it as you highlight, is making sure the community are on board. This is not about forcing anything on anyone. It is about making sure that we have a viable plan that does have community consent to bring down power prices as part of a range of policy measures that will be announced before the next election. To rule it out as Labor have I think is irresponsible. To have this option on the table is exactly what Australia needs and I look forward to the full details being there and I look forward to debating it with my counterparts as time unfolds.
Tom Connell:
But would you consider what an electorate does in terms of their vote if they’re selected significant at least as to whether that initial proposed site becomes reality?
Senator Duniam:
Well, I think you’d actually specifically have to have the conversation with them and ask that specific question. I don’t think an election result is necessarily directly, people cast their vote on a range of issues, immigration, education, cost of living, maybe nuclear. But I think you’ve got to have that direct, specific conversation with them.
Tom Connell:
So does that mean a postal survey or something like that, that everyone votes in?
Senator Duniam:
I don’t think I’d be announcing a postal survey for this sort of thing, but I think we do need to engage with the community. That’s important.
Tom Connell:
But how do you do it otherwise? Because you know polling is, you know, it’s pretty good if you look at Newspoll, but they often ask couple of 1000 people around the country. How do you make sure a poll’s representative unless you, you know, open up to everyone and run it properly through the AEC.
Senator Duniam:
While I’ve watched the polls closely, I’ve never had to administer one, but I think the one thing that any elected representative, be that in the Senate or the House, wants to do is to ensure that they effectively represent their community. There’s a myriad of ways to do it, and I reckon there’ll be more detail of how we do that in the future. But safe to say communities won’t be having things forced on them by the Coalition.
Tom Connell:
Ok. There you go. Maybe if there are pollsters out looking for more business, the Coalition might be able conduct some big ones around our regional Australia. Jonathon Duniam, thank you.
Senator Duniam:
Thank you, Tom.