20 August 2024
Topics: Gaza visas, aged care reform negotiations, environmental approval reforms and EPA negotiations, political staffer pay
E&OE
Greg Jennett:
Assistant Immigration Minister Matt Thistlethwaite, welcome back Matt, and from the Coalition, frontbench Shadow Environment Minister Jonno Duniam. Thanks to you too, Jonno. Look, we’ll go to the house. You may or may not be aware of this Jonno Duniam, but yet another day of questions in the house over Palestinian visas. Matt, as you are the Assistant Minister, I guess you have some understanding of what’s gone on here. To repeat the question asked multiple times in the House today, how many approved visas from Gaza have been subsequently cancelled?
Matt Thistlethwaite:
Well, the normal processes are being undertaken, Greg, there was around 7000 rejections of applications for visas and the normal process of someone applying for a visa and having that assessed, the security and intelligence agencies apply their normal routines and processes to them, and then people are granted visas. And it’s not just visitors’ visas, there are a whole host of visas that people from that territory have applied for, so the normal processes that were in place under the previous government are being undertaken under the new government.
Greg Jennett:
That’s an answer we’re very familiar with Jonno Duniam. But where’s this meant to go now that the Coalition’s into its second week of asking these questions what’s the smoking gun you’re trying to expose here?
Senator Duniam:
I think all Australians are left and have been feeling for a long time that they’re not being kept safe by this government, that there are concerns around decisions that are made with regard to people who are led into this country. And while there are assurances provided that processes are followed, I think Australians can be forgiven for thinking that that may not be the case. So there are a lot of things we will be pursuing in this space to get clarity around advice received from security agencies to ensure that the decisions made and the people we are letting into this country are in fact, people we should have here.
Greg Jennett:
What’s the assertion you make about the security agencies themselves that they were somehow lax?
Senator Duniam:
No. Well I think it really comes down to those seeking the information. I mean, at the end of the day, the Department and the Minister making the decision need to be the ones who are satisfied. I don’t think our security agencies are lax. I wonder whether they are taken seriously sometimes by this government and I guess that’s why we and the rest of Australia are concerned about what has happened hence, as you say, our second week of questions on a very, very serious topic.
Greg Jennett:
We’ve asked a few people on the program, Matt, throughout the week why the government chose to go down the path of using visitor or tourist visas with this caseload. What’s the answer to that?
Matt Thistlethwaite:
Well, it’s not the case that they’re all visitor or tourist visas. There are other visas that are being applied for. I think it’s important to note that there’s two major conflicts in the world at the moment – Ukraine and in in the Middle East – there are applications from people fleeing those zones to come to Australia. In both cases, there are rigorous tests that are put in place and assessments that are done by our security and intelligence agencies. There’s no difference…
Greg Jennett:
But there is a difference between the Ukrainian visas in large measure and those applied to Palestinians.
Matt Thistlethwaite:
Not in terms of the security and the work that ASIO does. So I’m unaware of why the Coalition are targeting one group but not the other. Why are they implying that there’s something wrong with the process that ASIO and our security and intelligence agencies are undertaking with respect to the Middle East.
Greg Jennett:
Well answer that, Jonno Duniam.
Senator Duniam:
I think the concern really rests with the Government, the Ministers, two of whom have been shuffled off to other duties after what was frankly, an abysmal period of time. And I think the conflict in the Middle East is a very different one to the one we’re seeing in Eastern Europe in terms of the groups of people participating in that and the groups of people that might be seeking to leave and come to Australia. So I think it is right to apply a measure that actually does keep our country safe. That is not wrong to keep our people safe in this country safe.
Greg Jennett:
Well, you wouldn’t want Russian agents to be coming in under the guise of being Ukrainian either would you? Where are the questions on them?
Senator Duniam:
Well, I suspect and I would hope that the government, if they’re doing their job properly, are applying those measures. But if you look at the threat level being increased just a week ago, that was related to threats arising out of the Middle East conflict. That’s where we and we’re being told by our security agent leads that that’s where the risk arises from. And on that basis, that’s why these questions are being asked. You can’t ignore what they’re saying and what has prompted this lift in the terror threat level.
Greg Jennett:
And that is the correlation here. We did get the escalation in the national terror threat level. So in that context, was it not legitimate?
Matt Thistlethwaite:
We got the escalation in the terror threat assessment because ASIO and security organisations were concerned that the division that is being stoked within the community could lead to someone, you know, doing the wrong thing and Australians being injured and that’s why it’s important that we try and take the tone down a bit and make sure that we’re trying to work together and that we’re unified as a nation and that we’re doing our bit to help. And trying to stoke division over this particular issue as the Leader of the Opposition has been doing I don’t think it’s helpful. I think that what we need to do is come together as a nation and work out how we can assist and how we can do our bit but try and make sure that all Australians live cohesively and in peace.
Greg Jennett:
Alright, let’s move on from visa approval processes to aged care. I think we have a fairly clear understanding that negotiations are underway between government and opposition to land a substantial package that includes prospects for more user-pays approaches especially to the non-care elements like gardening and cleaning services. Who will pay more? I know we’re awaiting the specifics Matt Thistlethwaite but who does the government have in mind as wanting to and eligible to pay more out of their own pockets for higher levels of care?
Matt Thistlethwaite:
Well, the negotiations haven’t concluded yet, so it it’s premature to try and answer that. We do want to make this bipartisan. We’re talking about a major reform, particularly in the wake of the Royal Commission where they made a series of recommendations. We’ve implemented many of those, nurses back in aged care facilities 24/7, increasing the quality of nutrition and face to face care. But there is pressure on the financial model and that’s resulted in basically post-COVID no increase in aged care beds across the country and that’s unsustainable with an ageing population. So we do need to come up with a formula that will encourage more providers to build new facilities to offer more beds but make it financially sustainable and that’s what we’re negotiating with the opposition about at the moment.
Greg Jennett:
And Jonno, what sort of approach is the opposition bringing to this? Do you have an answer in your own mind about who other candidates to pay more, who might elect to in a more vibrant, I think the the sales pitch that goes with this is there are lots of providers who want to provide new and innovative styles of care, but the market’s not there for it. So who makes up that market?
Senator Duniam:
I think as Matt has already said there are some details yet to be nutted out in this and the changes that will result in the agreement that will be reached must be enduring because I think, as everyone’s pointed out, the unsustainable model means that no one benefits, no one gets the care, particularly in regional communities as well. And this is where rubber really hits the road with the problems we’ve seen in the aged care market, where in those parts of our country that we don’t have the scale that we do in cities, it’s very hard to provide those services. So there’s a focus on that but I’m sure the Minister and the Shadow Minister will have a lot more to say in due course, but it will be, I believe, in the best interests of our country and I just hope that people understand why this has happened.
Greg Jennett:
There you go. In a place where it’s commonly portrayed as people at each other’s throats, we may be able to land something substantially bipartisan when? I think caucus was told, did I see the words very, very soon?
Matt Thistlethwaite:
Very soon. Who knows when that is Greg? Hopefully this week but we’ll keep negotiating and making sure that we try and get the arrangement right because it’s too important not to get right.
Greg Jennett:
Alright, talking of negotiations, this is one that’s totally in your wheelhouse, Jonno. There’s been a further delay by the Senate Committee reporting on the nature positive bill that Tanya Plibersek has put forward to effectively create and enhance an Environment Protection Agency. Are you in any form of ongoing negotiation with the government on the bill at the centre of that report?
Senator Duniam:
So across the Senate there are conversations occurring. The backdrop here is of course that, Greg, the government hasn’t introduced the laws to replace the broken laws that we have for environmental approvals. Instead, all we are debating and negotiating on is a set of laws to establish a new bureaucracy to administer those broken laws. So it’s a pretty negative starting point and every stakeholder, from business community through to environmental group, are saying this is a bad deal. So of course it’s incumbent upon us and other participants in the debate, everyone in the Senate to make a bad bill better. But there is a very long way to go.
Greg Jennett:
I think on every other occasion that we’ve spoken about it, you seem to create the impression, deliberately or otherwise in my mind, that there was no joy to be had for you here and you weren’t actively engaged. Are you saying you now are or still are with the Minister?
Senator Duniam:
Every time a bill comes before Parliament, we will engage to make this the best outcome possible, or at least the least-worst outcome possible And it’s incumbent upon us to do that because if we don’t work with the government, they’ll go and do a deal with the Greens which of course will be Armageddon for our economy and that’s something everyone wants to avoid.
Greg Jennett:
Alright, not sure if you’ve got a view on that Matt, but if not I’ll I might take you on to our final matter we wanted to cover today reported by our colleague Jacob Greber that parliamentary staff pay is subject of a new offer. This would cover 2 000 political staff across the building, 11.2% over three years along with a whole lot of extra allowances. Does that meet community standards at these times of, you know, tight purse strings in a cost of living crisis?
Matt Thistlethwaite:
Well, we think it’s a fair offer. It’s obviously been put to the union and staff, they’re considering, there’s a vote that will take place. What we’ve tried to do is reflect some of the advances that we’ve made for the general population in this agreement. So in strengthening paid parental leave access, increase in rates for casuals and allowance for people who speak languages. That’s a really, really important skill that MPs value in their electorate officers, having someone that can communicate with multicultural groups in your in your community. So they’re has been allowance for that as well as an 11% increase in wages over three years. So it’s got to be voted on obviously and we’ll wait and see what the outcome is.
Greg Jennett:
I guess you all value your staff and want the best for them, but what’s the Coalition’s view on this package in its entirety?
Senator Duniam:
As Matt said, I mean it’s an offer being presented to staff and they’ll vote on it accordingly. One has to accept the fact that beyond frontl