25 June 2024
Topics: Julian Assange, Matt Kean appointment, nuclear energy, NDIS bill delay, Governor General pay increase
E&OE
Greg Jennett:
We’re going to introduce our political panel now and joining us in the studio in between votes and proceedings in both chambers, I might add, Labor frontbencher Matt Thistlethwaite, welcome back Matt, and Liberal frontbencher Jonno Duniam is here too. Same to you, Jonno. Look, we won’t spend much time on Julian Assange that because we’ve spoken to others about it, but a quick reflection from you, Matt Thistlethwaite, it seems unstoppable now with the court appearance tomorrow and the onward journey to Australia, how much has been involved from the Australian Government’s point of view in bringing this to a head?
Matt Thistlethwaite MP:
The Prime Minister and the Government have been clear for some time now that we thought that this matter had gone on for too long and should be brought to a conclusion. We’ll wait and see what happens tomorrow, of course I don’t want to pre-empt the court proceedings, but he’s traveling to the United States and hopefully there’ll be a good result tomorrow.
Greg Jennett:
And Jonno, this jumps across party lines as we’ve observed on the program already. We spoke to Barnaby Joyce earlier today as well. So as a Liberal, how do you how do you view Julian Assange upon his imminent return to this country?
Senator Duniam:
Well, look Greg, it’s one of those issues haven’t been terribly involved in. A number of my colleagues have, and it’s sort of, as you say, something that transcends political boundaries, but I think Australians will, whatever their views about Mr Assange and his purported actions, I think will be pleased that the matter won’t be dominating the headlines hopefully for much longer. It’s been quite the story for some now.
Greg Jennett:
It has, all of fourteen years by most people’s reckoning. Let’s move on to energy, nuclear power in particular. I’ll start with you on this one Jonno, the Coalition’s been highly critical of the appointment of Matt Kean as chair of the Climate Change Authority. Do we take it as a given that if a Dutton Government is elected, he’d be sacked?
Senator Duniam:
Well, first thing’s first, we’ve got to get elected. I’m not fussed by Mr Kean’s appointment. Two years ago, when he was a member of the NSW Government as a Liberal Minister, we knew what his views were then, they’re the same as they are today. They are what they are. I disagreed with him on many, many things, including on nuclear, as it turns out.
Greg Jennett:
Well, he had a nuanced position at one point.
Senator Duniam:
Indeed he did, that’s right. So, consistency is perhaps not a strong point, but putting that to one side, I think what most Australians are going to be focussed on, unlike I think Mr Kean and as it turns out based on yesterday’s press conference, the Prime Minister as well – the cost of energy. They talked all about renewables targets, they talked about emissions reductions targets but not one mention of the cost of energy. So that’s where we’re going to be focused. How we get there is what we’re outlining now, but I don’t think Mr Kean’s too fussed about that.
Greg Jennett:
Alright, take us to cost then Matt, because you bore witness to questions in the house today that pointed to the $121 billion figure from AEMO, soon to be updated in fact. But the question went, doesn’t that omit really large cost add-ons that go with the transformation to net zero in 2050? How all-encompassing is that $121 billion figure that the Government touts?
Matt Thistlethwaite MP:
Well, they’re the figures that are produced by AEMO and I think the important thing to note is that the pathway that the Government is on and that the economy is on is the cheapest form of producing energy to meet our needs but at the same time meeting the commitments that we’ve signed up to in Paris. So, meeting our international commitments to reduce carbon emissions, but still providing cheap, safe, reliable energy for Australians. And that’s the way that we’re going to do that and that’s why we’re opposed to nuclear energy because it’s much more expensive. The pathway that we’re on, a slow reduction in fossil fuels, gradual increase in particularly solar and wind is the cheapest way to get there.
Greg Jennett:
Alright, I’d like to invite you to come back at that, Jonno, but we don’t have any costing so it’s a little hard for you to argue that point, isn’t it?
Senator Duniam:
Well, I suppose there’s a couple of things I’d say there, Greg. We will have our costings and the full package of policies out well and truly in time for the Australian people to decide who has a better plan and a better package to bring down power prices, to keep the lights on, to grow the economy. I can be guaranteeing you and your viewers that. But I’m hearing figures of $1.2 to $1.5 trillion in terms of the cost of the rollout. Now, no one’s denied that yet and that to me does not sound like the cheapest form of energy generation in this country.
Greg Jennett:
That’s a model figure by an organisation called Net Zero Australia. Let’s not pull that apart. I want to move on to the NDIS. First one to you, Matt, Bill Shorten’s claiming he’s furious with the Senate and the Coalition together with the Greens delaying his big overhaul bill of the scheme that an eight week delay will cost $1.1 billion dollars. How does that add up?
Matt Thistlethwaite MP:
Well, we know that the cost of the scheme is increasing dramatically, unfortunately, because there are a number of organisations and contractors that are brought in the system that are charging three and four times what they would normally charge for services for people with disabilities and this has gone on for way too long and the cost of the scheme has blown out and it’s not meeting its original intention. So we want to make sure that the taxpayer gets value for money and the services that people with disabilities need and require on a daily basis get delivered in an effective and efficient manner. So that’s what the reforms are about. They’re about ensuring that there’s greater scrutiny on the charges that people are putting on people with disabilities and getting better value for money for the taxpayer.
Greg Jennett:
I assume that’s an unarguable proposition, Jonno Duniam, anyone who wants to make the scheme sustainable would want to drum out fraud and rogue operators. So, what changes by kicking this can down the road for a further eight weeks.
Senator Duniam:
Well, the fact that we have had clients of the NDIS, family members and friends of clients of the NDIS, service providers, not for profit organisations all saying this consultation process that we’ve been engaged in to reform the NDIS has been flawed, it hasn’t properly consulted, we haven’t been heard and so therefore we don’t think you’re going to get it right. And that was a fairly loudly held view to Senators involved in that inquiry. So, the view of the Senate was you’ve had two years to get it right, it’s still not right. Please work with us through the Senate to get it right and that’s what’s happening now.
Greg Jennett:
Do you quibble with this figure, I assume extrapolated from recent cost blowouts by Bill Shorten, that gets us to savings that could have been obtained in the order of $1.1 billion over eight weeks.
Senator Duniam:
Well, those figures I can’t argue with. I don’t know if they’re accurate or not, but I will say we’ve had two years to get it right. So, if we’re worried about an eight week delay, why have we taken two years to get to this point? You can’t just put it in at the eleventh hour and expect everything to be ok.
Greg Jennett:
Alright, let’s go to something that may or may not be dear to your heart, Matt Thistlethwaite as Minister for the Republic or Assistant Minister, the pay increase for Sam Mostyn as the incoming GG, about $700,000 a year, or a 40 per cent increase. Is this a reliable price guide to what we’ll have to pay for a President?
Matt Thistlethwaite MP:
Well, it’s a pretty important job. It’s the representative of the head of state with a significant role under our constitution and from what I understand the pay is pegged to and related to what the Chief Justice of the High Court receives and they’re both pretty important roles. So very important role within our society. The second point to make is that previous Governors General have had military careers and have been able to access military pensions. The new Governor General, Samantha Mostyn, won’t be able to do that. So there’s an element of that in it as well. We think is pretty fair.
Greg Jennett:
Ok I think the Coalition will be supporting it, by the way, Jonno, but there’s almost implicit in that a price premium when you don’t go down the path of a retired top brass from the military, former judge and the like, all of whom have public sector pensions, right? Is this just the price of doing business when you go for an unconventional appointment, somewhat unconventional anyway in Sam Mostyn?
Senator Duniam:
Yeah, well, I guess there’s the fact as outlined by Matt, what the lay of the land is, but one thing that was pointed out to me and the entire Coalition party room just this morning by my colleague Dean Smith was that while this seems like an excessive amount of money to be giving one individual, it’s a hell of a lot cheaper than any referendum will ever be.
Greg Jennett:
Ok, alright, fair point. Look, I’m being told at the moment that bells are ringing and they might require one or both of you to go. Because of that, I think we’re going to wrap it up anyway and I think in first instance I’ll let you go very quickly, Matt Thistlethwaite. Thanks so much and to you too, Jonno.